Human MDs in residencies are capped at an 80-hour work week and veterinary internship guidelines (admittedly voluntary) recommend a max of 60 hours/week. Forcing DVM students—who not only work for free but PAY >$60,000 a year for this “privilege”—to work anywhere near 100 hours a week to patch staffing shortages is completely unacceptable and must change.
I have some questions about the numbers. But first, let me be absolutely clear - NO ONE should be working consistent 100+ hour weeks. Not anyone in human medicine. Not anyone in animal welfare. Not anyone flying planes or driving trains. And not anyone having to work multiple minimum-wage jobs just to stay in poverty. No one.
So, moving on. There were dozens of students who signed this letter. Did you speak directly to them? Is that your source? Did you ask for some kind of log of hours spent within the hospital? Or did you take it at word value? Because I am trying to understand how anyone is working consistently 100(+) weeks. Broken down the numbers seem a little incredulous. At 7 days/week, that means consistent 14+ hour days. But that does not seem possible - they must have at least 1 day away. So, at 6 days per week that is 16.5+ hours every day they are in the hospital. At 5 days it's an even 20 hours/day. And we all know it cannot be done in 4 days...
Listen, I know what grueling schedules are. I know working long days add up and feel like hell. And I know that it can feel like there is no way any information is being retained. And I know what it feels like to not have any down or alone time. If any lessons were learned through the early years of the pandemic, it is that the vet med world takes a beating on the routine. And it only gets amplified by feeling tired all the time.
Is it possible that 80 hours is a more close-to-real number? I mean, it's still not great. At 7 days that averages almost 11.5 hours every day, week after week. At 6 days it is closer to 13.3 hours/day, again, week after week. And at 5 days/week, that is 16-hour days. With 2 days away.
I still do not like that thought of anyone (again - human medicine, animal welfare, those having to work multiple jobs just to survive, so ANYONE) HAVING to work that much week after week.
It seems like the number was made to shock and bring attention. And it did. But I am wondering if it was an exaggeration. And what that does to credibility to you who published it and those who claim it.
As someone who is working full time and taking a class to be able to help more people, I know it can seem like there is no 'me' time, but maybe because I have done the full-time school and part-time work thing already, and I have a lifetime lived before them, I have an easier grip on realizing what I can and cannot cut to make time.
Do you consider this to have been journalism or reporting? If its reporting, then facts should be verified (by you) even if you took from another source. Since you didn't just take and share another article then it's journalism, and you have injected some opinion. I presented numbers, based on what you presented, whatever you consider(ed) it.
A lengthy comment and not one I would've been comfortable posting, for reasons from the "baseless" nature of allegations of 65 students reported in the Inquirer to the repeated misspellings of my name.
Far be it from me to leave you "disheartened," but the facts of the situation are reported in credible newspapers and further information was gathered from the Penn Vet website.
And of all your criticisms, poor spelling, and straw man arguments, not a single one addressed the circumstances experienced by the students.
If you provide me with your actual name and contact information, I'll leave your comment up.
If not, I'm deleting it. You can criticize, but not anonymously. We're responsible for what we write around here.
I have no doubt that Dr. Beale is dedicated, caring, and compassionate.
She is also the Chief Medical Officer of a university hospital where more than half the senior students signed their names to a letter claiming that they were working more than 100 hours per week.
A person can be dedicated, caring, compassionate, and struggle to resolve patient care staffing issues. Having a problem to fix doesn't make someone a bad person.
A lack of transparency, however, does not do much to allay concerns. Rather it tends to inflame them.
Finally, I'll say to you what I say to everyone who comments anonymously: if you provide your name and contact information, your comment can stay. If not, I'll delete it.
I welcome criticism, but not from the cowardice of anonymity. We are responsible for what we write here.
Human MDs in residencies are capped at an 80-hour work week and veterinary internship guidelines (admittedly voluntary) recommend a max of 60 hours/week. Forcing DVM students—who not only work for free but PAY >$60,000 a year for this “privilege”—to work anywhere near 100 hours a week to patch staffing shortages is completely unacceptable and must change.
I have some questions about the numbers. But first, let me be absolutely clear - NO ONE should be working consistent 100+ hour weeks. Not anyone in human medicine. Not anyone in animal welfare. Not anyone flying planes or driving trains. And not anyone having to work multiple minimum-wage jobs just to stay in poverty. No one.
So, moving on. There were dozens of students who signed this letter. Did you speak directly to them? Is that your source? Did you ask for some kind of log of hours spent within the hospital? Or did you take it at word value? Because I am trying to understand how anyone is working consistently 100(+) weeks. Broken down the numbers seem a little incredulous. At 7 days/week, that means consistent 14+ hour days. But that does not seem possible - they must have at least 1 day away. So, at 6 days per week that is 16.5+ hours every day they are in the hospital. At 5 days it's an even 20 hours/day. And we all know it cannot be done in 4 days...
Listen, I know what grueling schedules are. I know working long days add up and feel like hell. And I know that it can feel like there is no way any information is being retained. And I know what it feels like to not have any down or alone time. If any lessons were learned through the early years of the pandemic, it is that the vet med world takes a beating on the routine. And it only gets amplified by feeling tired all the time.
Is it possible that 80 hours is a more close-to-real number? I mean, it's still not great. At 7 days that averages almost 11.5 hours every day, week after week. At 6 days it is closer to 13.3 hours/day, again, week after week. And at 5 days/week, that is 16-hour days. With 2 days away.
I still do not like that thought of anyone (again - human medicine, animal welfare, those having to work multiple jobs just to survive, so ANYONE) HAVING to work that much week after week.
It seems like the number was made to shock and bring attention. And it did. But I am wondering if it was an exaggeration. And what that does to credibility to you who published it and those who claim it.
As someone who is working full time and taking a class to be able to help more people, I know it can seem like there is no 'me' time, but maybe because I have done the full-time school and part-time work thing already, and I have a lifetime lived before them, I have an easier grip on realizing what I can and cannot cut to make time.
It was a letter submitted by students to the administration and published by The Philadelphia Inquirer.
Did I interview every student and check their schedules? No. Instead I trusted in the facts from the students and reported by a reputable newspaper.
You’re welcome to doubt the credibility of the students and a reputable newspaper, but you have only your own opinion to support your doubt.
Do you consider this to have been journalism or reporting? If its reporting, then facts should be verified (by you) even if you took from another source. Since you didn't just take and share another article then it's journalism, and you have injected some opinion. I presented numbers, based on what you presented, whatever you consider(ed) it.
Again, you're welcome to your opinion.
Mine is based on information sourced from a reputable newspaper.
You doubt its veracity. You are welcome to your skepticism, and I invite you to offer genuine evidence to the contrary.
A lengthy comment and not one I would've been comfortable posting, for reasons from the "baseless" nature of allegations of 65 students reported in the Inquirer to the repeated misspellings of my name.
Far be it from me to leave you "disheartened," but the facts of the situation are reported in credible newspapers and further information was gathered from the Penn Vet website.
And of all your criticisms, poor spelling, and straw man arguments, not a single one addressed the circumstances experienced by the students.
If you provide me with your actual name and contact information, I'll leave your comment up.
If not, I'm deleting it. You can criticize, but not anonymously. We're responsible for what we write around here.
You might be right, I could be totally off base.
And it’s a total coincidence that PennVet sent their students an email describing a new project to log and evaluate their workload just this morning.
I have no doubt that Dr. Beale is dedicated, caring, and compassionate.
She is also the Chief Medical Officer of a university hospital where more than half the senior students signed their names to a letter claiming that they were working more than 100 hours per week.
A person can be dedicated, caring, compassionate, and struggle to resolve patient care staffing issues. Having a problem to fix doesn't make someone a bad person.
A lack of transparency, however, does not do much to allay concerns. Rather it tends to inflame them.
Finally, I'll say to you what I say to everyone who comments anonymously: if you provide your name and contact information, your comment can stay. If not, I'll delete it.
I welcome criticism, but not from the cowardice of anonymity. We are responsible for what we write here.
Anonymous opinions don't mean anything to me.
Have the courage of your convictions or rethink your convictions.